Shifting strategy and culture for educational leadership in an age of AI with Dan Fitzpatrick

Brittany Blackwell:

Welcome back to another episode of the Leading and Learning with AI podcast. I'm your host for today, Brittany Blackwell, former educator of 13 years and marketing lead here at Panorama Education. I am joined today by Dan Fitzpatrick, who is a well-known author, teacher, and award-winning digital strategist working with schools, colleges, and businesses around the world. Welcome to the show, Dan.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

Thank you, Brittany. It's, it's amazing to be able to chat with you again. Excited for our conversation.

Brittany Blackwell:

Yes. So Dan, a lot of leaders feel both urgency and confusion right now because AI feels really big, really fast. It's really hard to pin down. So I kind of want us to get into the nitty-gritty right away. What is AI revealing about education that we have been able to ignore for a really long time?

Dan Fitzpatrick:

Yeah, I, I think that's a huge question. And it's a question that I think we're starting to really just peel back the layers. Probably the most obvious one was assessment. And we've kind of been pondering that for a few years now in terms of what does a world of AI do to our assessment model? And we know that it puts it in a very precarious position. And we know that we probably need to do something about it. I think we've got a long journey ahead on how we do that, because I don't know about you, but I often think of the education system, and I'm talking about the system in general here, It's a bit like a house of cards, the way we have it set up. And you think like assessment is almost like the card that's down in the bottom right-hand corner. And when we start to kind of move that in, the whole thing could fall down.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

And I think that's a major problem for us in that how do we transform education? How do we move forward in a completely different world? And let's be frank, we're moving into, and you could probably argue we already are in a very different world. Without destroying the whole thing, really. But the crazy thing is, if we don't do anything, then it just becomes stale and irrelevant. And we did, at my company, at the end of every year, we do a bit of a survey. So, all the schools we've worked with that year, the subscribers to our newsletter, and we kind of ask them for their frank overview of where they think AI is in education, what we might need to do going forward. Every year up until now has kind of been the same thing. So, more professional development, more awareness, and, you know, kind of the obvious things. And those are still really much needed in many areas.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

However, we saw something appear in these results, which was kind of resounded across the board, and that was from leaders all the way to classroom teachers, was that they feel that they are stuck. When we explored this, what we found was that they feel like they're in a paralysis of decision-making, and that's because they don't know where to go now. They know something needs to change. And if you've read Infinite Education, in there I talk about us being in a liminal space in that the traditional ways are crumbling and we're in a moment where the future hasn't been created yet and we're kind of at that crossroads. And that's kind of what was identified in this survey. However, I think we're at a point where most educators who have grappled this technology, most leaders are at a point where they kind of think, well, we feel like we know what this technology is at the moment anyway. We can see its capability. We can kind of see how we use it well, and we probably are using it well.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

Even if our school hasn't invested in this, in any software yet, they're probably using it well at home. They can kind of see the risks, they can kind of see the benefits, but they're stuck because nobody's making decisions about the way forward. And this isn't on individual leaders, neither. I'm really, really conscious to stress that this isn't a leadership failure. This is a systemic failure in that we don't know how to make decisions. And this is very broad strokes, but we don't know how to make decisions where we aren't fully certain of the outcome. Now, that's— it's a real leadership skill, that, and quite a rare skill, to be honest. Now, I'm not saying we react at 51% certainty, but I think we need to get good at being able to act and make decisions far from that 100% certainty.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

Now, some people might be listening and thinking, yeah, but Dan, what if we get it wrong? Like, we've got a whole generation of students that we're experimenting with here, and we could fail a generation of students. 100%. I've got a 5 and 6-year-old in the education system. I've worked in the education system. I've been a teacher. And I am not saying we put our young people at risk here. It's not a zero-sum game. When we make a decision to act, we can roll back, we can pivot, we can change course.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

We have to do this in a really wise way. But my message is, in 2026, those who are really going to move ahead are those who are not just experimenting, not just reflecting anymore, but we're going to need to see some action.

Brittany Blackwell:

Yeah, I think the one question that I have for you, and I'm sure that there is an educator out there, how does the educator fit into being a leader in this moment too, with all of this uncertainty?

Dan Fitzpatrick:

Yeah, and I think that's such an important question as well, because I think sometimes, and I remember being back as a classroom teacher, we can feel a bit powerless in these circumstances. Somebody above our pay grade makes the decisions about where we go. I think no matter where we work in a school system, what level we're at, we all have some kind of leadership responsibility. We all have influence over a sphere that we work in and that that we, we live in. And so, okay, we might not be able to make a decision where we say, right, the whole school is moving on to this AI platform, just as an example. Of course we can't. However, we can influence some of the content that we are covering with our students to make sure that they have awareness of AI, to make sure that they are building communication skills in the world of AI, which is really important. There's lots of areas where we do have influence.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

And also, I remember when I was, when I first got my first major strategic leadership position in a group of colleges in the north of England. I remember someone saying to me, in fact, I think it was my interview saying, do you know how to manage up? And me just kind of nodding and saying, yeah. And then I realized I didn't, but I had a great mentor at the time and managing up. I think sometimes we think, because we like to simplify things in our heads. And if you're like me, I like to have almost like a diagram in my head when I'm imagining things is that we think of managing down. We think of that pyramid, don't we? Well, who's under us, or where's our sphere of influence, and we manage that. Actually, there is such a thing as managing up as well and leading upwards and having influence over the people who might be our boss, who might be our leaders. And that's a bit— it's a bit more of a subtle leadership.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

It's a bit more of a cultural style leadership. But I think it's within all of our power that if we want change to happen, that we can do this and we can from the grassroots influence as well. I think most of my career was grassroots trying to change things. I remember when we might have discussed this the last time we spoke. I remember when I was a classroom— in fact, I was still training to be a teacher and my friend and myself set up like breakfast clubs for teachers. We persuaded the cafeteria staff to put on a breakfast every morning and we would invite teachers to come and try out edtech tools and because we were passionate about it. And so we had no official leadership, but we were still able to kind of influence our colleagues and show people the benefits. So, I think if we want change to happen, we, we can manage up as well as down.

Brittany Blackwell:

Yeah, I think what you said there is, is just really powerful because there is a teacher out there who's wanting to lead and they don't even realize that they already are. So many educators right now are already testing platforms and trying new things with AI, and so they they don't even realize that their influence is leadership in this moment. I wanna go back though to kind of what you were saying about leaders taking action without being 100% ready. And when a leader comes to you feeling that pressure, what's the first thing you help them get clear on before they do anything?

Dan Fitzpatrick:

Yeah, I think it's probably no surprise if you've read Infinite Education, but I think strategy always has to come first before you've drafted that policy, before you you've come up with a plan, and I'm really conscious to say plan because I think a lot of people misunderstand strategy and they think it is the plan. Strategy is not the plan. The plan is fed from the strategy, but the strategy is the ability to set a direction and figure out the reasons why you want to go in that direction. And again, that can change, that changes. And I think some of the things that people get afraid of is that, well, when we put our flag in the sand up ahead, that we can't change it, we can't move. We, of course, we can. We we can, can continually change, and I would say we, we have to change. I think what leadership skills need to be developed from that, once you have your strategy or kind of that encompass that strategy, I always go back to the, this framework that I use called the Virtuous Leader Framework.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

And if we think of the kind of traditional four virtues, we have wisdom. We have courage. So the first two, the wisdom is being able to make a decision, being able to set a pattern and move forward. It requires vision, requires being fed by experience, not just our own experience, but the people around us and the people we're working with. But being able to say, right, this is probably kind of the direction we want to go in. So sometimes when I'm working with leaders, we say, just an arbitrary number, let's say 5 years. Where do we want to be in 5 years? And sometimes we start with story, like write a story about what a student in your school experiences in 5 years' time. And then we go, well, how do we make that a reality? Well, next we have to move.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

So we have to make a decision. And courage is not something, it's not a virtue of acting with 100% certainty. You don't need courage to do that. That's an obvious thing. Anyone can do that. Courage is the ability to act when there is not certainty. And then we have the last two virtues, which is justice. So being able to identify what is right and what's wrong.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

So we have the ethics, the morality side of it. Is this direction good for all of our students? Is it just good for those who are higher ability? Maybe what's equity like then? Being able to pivot based on our judgment. And then the last one is temperance. So, and essentially the ability to be able to know when to stop or pivot. And I think working on those four virtues of a leader, once we kind of have those in our minds as leaders, and again, at any level, it just doesn't have to be the district administrator or superintendent, it can be anyone. Once we, once we're kind of living by those virtues and how we lead, then it becomes clear that what our strategy needs to be, what our strategy, what are the ingredients that need to go into that strategy. And a strategy could just be a paragraph. It doesn't have, again, it doesn't have to be a huge 40-page PDF that goes on a website and then figuring out how, how we get there.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

And I think for, let's say, a superintendent who's trying to figure that out, that is a very formal process. It's a very, you might want to gather a team together. You might have some kind of consultant come in to work with you. But for the classroom teacher, you don't have to even write anything down. That can just be a mindset. That can just be maybe keeping those four virtues in the back of your mind. And am I courageous with my decisions? Am am I, I being ambitious enough? Am I acting fairly to all my students here and to my colleagues?? And do I know when to maybe stop and pivot with my decisions? I think just having those in the back of our minds when we make decisions and when we kind of work day to day, I think can can be, be really helpful and, and really shows the key indicators of of a, a leader, but not just any leader. I think the type of leader that we really, really need at the moment and those to move forward in this kind of crazy advance in AI world that we live in.

Brittany Blackwell:

I really like the framework, and I love how it's applicable to all leaders within the education space. And I think after having that initial clarity— and I really like the kind of brainstorming you talked about, even creating that story of that student who goes through to come up with that strategy— after that initial clarity, how do leaders go from thinking to doing in a way that doesn't overwhelm their staff? Because I think that's the next big piece is the overwhelm that comes from that leadership and going into that change management.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

100%. And, and I think this is where the second, the other side of the coin comes in. So you got one side of the coin, you've got strategy, the other side of the coin, you've got culture. Now, culture takes a bit more time. Culture involves bringing people along with you, from those who are most enthusiastic to those who are reluctant. Culture is really messy. Culture is very, very messy. If you think strategy in a way could be done behind a closed door on a weekend retreat, and you kind of have almost like a product at the end of it.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

I think strategy should be more fluid than that, but it could be viewed in that way. Culture is all about the people. It's all about developing competencies. It's about developing mindset and outlook. That takes a bit longer. And if you're starting, I always say this to, to leaders when I'm working with them, if you're starting from a place where you don't have a culture yet, maybe you're a new leader coming into a school, maybe you haven't really had to look at culture because the school's kind of always performed well and you're just kind of managing and continuing what's existed for a while in that school setting. Then this might take a bit longer. This is because this is going to— I suppose the cornerstone of culture is trust.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

And so therefore you have to develop trust. So trust between the leader and the rest of the faculty, whoever you're working with, and trust between each other. Now, I suppose, how do you do that? Well, I think you constantly have to reiterate that. This is to benefit our students and to benefit each other, not to move too fast. I think sometimes it's really tempting, especially when we are living in an AI world that moves at such an incredible pace. I think it's good to recognize that although technology might increase at an incredible pace, humans don't, and humans really can't. We can only go at the pace that we can go at. And let's be honest, education has a reputation for moving probably slower than, than a lot of other types of organizations.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

So, we have to first of all work with what we've got. I remember when one of my positions is I I had, had a team of about 35 people across different campuses and I was tasked with trying to make an innovative department of technological leaders and innovators. And I was essentially given the library staff from 5 campuses, library staff who are amazing people, lovely people, caring people. Would do anything for students, but their capabilities were in library skills. And I remember trying to think, how do we, how do we turn this team into an innovative team of technologists? And I was very inexperienced at the time. I was very naive and I thought I could do it within a few months. I thought just a few meetings would do it and quite clearly it didn't work. So it's, You've really got to work with people.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

You've got to give them autonomy. You've got to allow them to innovate, allow them, and I think as well, allow them to lead. So if you're a leader thinking, right, well, I've, let's take those 4 leadership virtues and these are are the, these the things I need to focus on. I think also as a leader thinking, how am I building those virtues in my people as well? How are we giving them the space to practice those virtues, to fail at those virtues as well and be able to pick themselves up? It's messy. And you know what, I think sometimes when I talk about this, I think educators and leaders think, okay, we've, we've got to do all this, but we've also got the main day job. We've got to teach classes. We've got to— the whole system's got to run as well. And it's really difficult to try and build in capacity and resource as well, whether that be time, money, staff, to actually build our culture and to build our strategic direction.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

My response to that is, yeah, it is difficult, but unless we do make that resource available, then things aren't going to change. Things won't change. We have to build that in, even if, and I know you've probably heard me talk about the three boxes solution before around, it's a great framework. I love to use it. It's a leadership strategy framework by a guy called Vijay Govindarajan. And he talks about when you want to innovate as a business, he talks from a business point of view. You have to think of your operation within 3 boxes. The first box is managing the present.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

It's the performance engine and it's what I've just been saying. It's it's the, the 99.9% of, of resource that's happening in your school. It's the classes, it's the timetable, schedule, everything that happens. Then we've got the second box, which is forgetting the past. So selectively forgetting things that don't work yet. Then we've got the third box, which is creating the future.. And in this model, all 3 have to be given attention to. Now, I think in his book, he recommends 80% in box 1, 20% in box 3 to create the future.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

I think that's just probably impossible for, for many schools. So I think, how do we max— let's say it's 99% box 1, 1% box 3 of creating the future. How do we get more value out of that 1%? I think it's probably coming together with other schools. I think it's creating partnerships with maybe local businesses, maybe local government, local universities, and actually our 1% plus their 1% could actually get us somewhere a bit faster and maybe help us to, to innovate and to create the future of where we want to go a bit faster. So it's going to take the strategy, the culture, and then underlying that is going to have to be the collaboration with others and other organizations.

Brittany Blackwell:

Yeah. And at some point, I think like leaders realize their systems kind of pull them back to that old way. When, when do leaders usually realize that their existing systems are working against the change that they're wanting to make?

Dan Fitzpatrick:

In my experience, I think many leaders know that and have known that for a while now. But they've got no choice really. I think especially as, as your listeners can probably tell, I'm in England from my accent. The education system here in England is very much like that house of cards I mentioned where you can't just go, right, we're going to overhaul the system today and we're going to run our school very differently to other schools because you're still measured on the same metrics that every other school is measured on. You still gotta meet certain standards that the government have set. You're still going to be inspected. We have an inspectorate here in the UK called Ofsted. So they're still going to come in and inspect you.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

And whether we like it or not, we're probably going to be judged on the exam grades of our students at the end of their time with us. And those exams are based very much on an older system of teach a subject, measure it, teach a subject, measure the learning. So there is a lot of pressure and I know what I'm talking about here. A lot of leaders won't be able to do, and that is why I kind of, I'm working with the leaders who feel like they might have a little bit of capacity to do this. Now that could be within the system, especially a state system, or it could be a private independent school or a charter school who doesn't have so much of the same regulation and metrics associated with it and has a bit more freedom, a bit more resource to be able to do that. I know just from examples of even some schools close to me that some schools that are within the system can still innovate. I mean, there's a great example of a school near me called XP Schools. They're kind of, they're within our state system here, but they are heavily influenced by schools like High Tech High in the United States.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

Where they kind of reject the siloed individual subjects and classes, instead focus on what they call expeditions, which is a bit like project-based learning where they teach multiple subjects within an expedition and students' work doesn't just go into a book. Students' work actually gets an authentic audience. It's something that they publish students' work. The student work might not be actually something that's written down. It might be a community project. And so I know this can be done, and I've worked with leaders who are doing this, even within the restraints of the system. It's just hard. It's just really, really difficult.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

And that's why it's not going to be for everyone. But I do think we need some leaders to stand up and to start taking some action so that then other leaders can follow and so that the government or whoever rules the system that you're in can actually start to understand that there are different ways we could do this.

Brittany Blackwell:

Yeah. And as you're describing all of this, I'm hearing this clear arc about kind of getting more clear on the problem, designing, I guess, experiences that people can try, bringing other people with you. You mentioned that. And then kind of adjusting this so that change can last. Is that the pattern you see when change actually works?

Dan Fitzpatrick:

Yeah, and I suppose a lot of what I've talked about is just getting started, really. It's, it's allowing movement to happen. I think sustainable transformation has to be something again that, that has resource built into it. I don't think we can just have a faculty meeting, portray this, get everything going, right? This is what we're going to start this initiative. We're going to do this. We've got a good culture. It has to be something that is continually revisited, has to be, whether that be, maybe you've got an innovation team within your school that kind of evaluates different innovations. Maybe there's a sandbox where teachers and students can continually be trying things out.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

But I think if we go back to the three boxes, the managing the present, when we bring on a new initiative, when we have created what we think might be the future, That kind of gets incorporated into managing the present. And I think that continual looking at how do we keep innovating has to be something that we live with. It's not just something we do every 10 years or every 5 years, or when there's a big technological breakthrough and we suddenly think, my goodness, we need to do something here. But it has to be part of how we operate. It has to be part of our ongoing processes. I honestly think we have to be reactive. I know Sometimes people say to me, well, how can education or how can a curriculum be continually reactive? Because we'd be changing it all of the time. I think it does need to be reactive.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

And I don't think we have to kind of throw the baby out with the bathwater every time we need now to know a new skill, but allowing a certain percentage or a certain part of the curriculum to be reactive. Because I think when we think about it, I mean, let's take AI. I mean, we both know that Many of the skills when we, when we talk about artificial intelligence is not, is not a technical skill. It's not the prompt and it's not the how do I use ChatGPT. It's the fundamental human skills that underpin using a technology like that. Now, those fundamental human skills aren't going to change. They might ebb and flow in terms of what do we focus more on within the human skills. So, Is it communication? Is it writing to express ourselves? Is it many, many different ways, critical thinking and so on.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

However, what we apply them to can change. So at the minute, if you're in a history class, you might be applying those skills to analyzing two sources from history, maybe two newspaper clippings from the Second World War and writing an exam question on that. You're kind of still in a way using, using communication skills, you're articulating yourself, you're critically analyzing. But actually, why don't we apply some of those skills to areas of artificial intelligence? So it's not an overhaul of the curriculum. It's not an overhaul of the skills our students need to learn, but it's just a refocusing on, well, right now, what, what would be the most beneficial way for them to learn those skills? What medium could we teach them this through? And I think being reactive to that is essential because then our students see those skills in context. They see those skills with meaning and they can then picture in their heads why those skills are relevant and why they should be motivated to develop them.

Brittany Blackwell:

Yes, absolutely. And if there's a leader listening today who took one, I'm just going to use your framework here, one courageous step this year instead of waiting for that perfect clarity, what do you hope that step would be?

Dan Fitzpatrick:

You know what, I think, I don't think I can name one thing that every leader can do. And I think, cause that's going to be different for every single leader, I think, and also depending on where you are in this journey. I think if you have not decided to upskill your, your staff and your students yet in terms of basic AI skills. I think that's a must. I don't even think that needs courage. I think that's just, let's block out a few hours of time and let's, let's move on with that. I think what might take a bit more courage is looking at not just the skills of your students and staff, but maybe maybe selecting a tool, maybe selecting— that can be risky at the moment. I know a lot of, a lot of educators don't necessarily want to get locked into a contract with it because they think this is a new company, it might not be around in 12 months, but actually do a bit of research or get some people to do some research and think, well, what kind of tool would, would be good to develop skills in? And that might not be like the tools that have come to the forefront in the last few years in terms of specifically educator tools, tools that create lesson plans and so on.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

Although they can be very valuable. It might be, well, how do we just teach our staff to be able to communicate with a chatbot artificial intelligence in a very clear way? And what chatbot are we going to invest in? Again, not that courageous because the chances are you're probably already using Google. So Gemini might be the option ready for you, or if you are using Microsoft, then Copilot. But starting to make, and these are small decisions in a way, And I mean small as in there's not that much courage and wisdom needed to make those decisions. But I think that will help you get into the habit of making decisions when it comes to AI. And then when the decisions do get a bit complex, because you're in the habit of making those small decisions, then the bigger decisions will, will come a bit easier. I think there's so many directions this is going to go in at the moment. To, do you want to start looking at that curriculum? Do you want to start thinking, how do we build in skill development? Or how do we start looking at assessment? Are we going to allow students to use AI? What does that look like? This is, this is a bit of a bigger one.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

This takes a bit more courage. But I think that's probably the next step after that. Probably the ones I've mentioned, and then hopefully a policy, some kind of basic policy too, so that you're all of your stakeholders have a confidence that, that you know what you're doing. And then, yeah, how do we look at assessment? Are are we, we still just going to say no AI for assessment? Or are we going to say, well, I know some schools adopted a bit of a traffic light system in terms of, well, actually this type of assessment, it's okay. This type of assessment is not. Again, that's not an all or nothing decision. That can be a decision that is reversed. In the coming semester.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

If it's, if it's not entirely working, you can pull back a bit or you can maybe go forward a bit. But just getting used to making those decisions and having confidence in those decisions so that you're not looking at your fellow leader at the next district or the next school and waiting for them to move first, but building confidence in, in your own decisions. And I think just knowing, having it in your mind that Making a decision is not an absolute. It can change. And actually, it's a sign of a good leader. A leader who changes their mind often is a leader who is listening to evidence, is a leader who is ready to pivot. And I think that actually a leader who changes their mind is a good leader and the type of leader we need going forward.

Brittany Blackwell:

I think that last statement is an amazing quote, and I really I just love the way that you said that because I think leaders need that permission sometimes to change their mind or to do something differently. Thank you again, Dan, for being a part of this and just for sharing your perspective, your frameworks with the leaders who are listening to this podcast. I know that they're gonna get a lot out of it from listening today.

Dan Fitzpatrick:

Thanks so much for having me.